Setec Astronomy

I've been around these detailing forums for over 15 years now, and to my recollection the whole idea of a "drying aid" pre-dates rinseless washes (well, the mainstream use of rinseless washes...before ONR put it in the mainstream, there was QEW (quick and easy wash), which people only used during the winter in the garage when they couldn't do a conventional wash). The idea was that a lot of swirls came when you were drying your car after a conventional wash--when there was no lubrication for the towel. So people started using QD to make the towel glide and clean up any leftover water spots (and give you some transient gloss, which some people did anyway after washing--use QD, that is). Somehow that morphed into using spray waxes and WOWA sealants as they became available. Since most rinseless washes have a decent amount of lubricity inherent in the function of the product, and you usually don't get the degree of spotting that you do during conventional wash (from rinsing parts of the car before you are done washing, and not having clean rinse water sitting on the car, only "treated" rinseless wash solution), I never really saw the need to use a drying aid with rinseless, besides, I don't really want to make my drying towels hydrophobic. I can see ONR being used as a drying aid for a conventional wash, particularly if you've gotten some water spots during the rinse/dry. Are you sure that's not what they're talking about? On the other hand, some people may not really understand the nuance between conventional, rinseless, and waterless washing as some of us do from watching it evolve over the years, and everyone is an expert now from using Google and watching YouTube.

I was trying to distinguish between a rinseless wash like ONR or ONRWW, and a conventional ("soap") wash, like Optimum Car Wash. You can also use your normal method (ONR/drying aid) on the jambs, even if you have to use different wash media and drying towels. I have separate towels I use for jambs and under the hood.

I don't see any reason why ONRWW wouldn't be fine if you already use that dilution for that purpose with regular ONR. When you say "regular washes" are you referring to conventional wash? Because if I'm doing a rinseless wash I just wash the jambs after the rest of the car with the same rinseless method.

Is that a....kayak?

So that's 5 x 4 = 20, using a third of a bottle, so that's 60 tires per bottle--pretty close to my estimation, makes me feel confident in my calculations.

I'd say you should be able to do one coat at least 50 times with 8 oz., perhaps a lot more. Some of it depends on your application method, how much is lost in the applicator each time, etc. I'm using a slightly different Optimum product and it's hard to tell how much I've used because of the curved portion of the top of the bottle, so that's my estimate.

On the towel hydrophobicity...that's why I don't like using drying aids. OPC also is great in the wash for removing staining from ONR wash media. I use it as a pre-wash. As far as all this talk about other-brand MF wash...maybe it's time for Dr. G to make a towel wash. Just make sure it's ok for HE washers. Sounds awesome that the new Hyper Seal has SiC.

As you mentioned, the only SiC coatings I know of are Optimum and the one CarPro. Um...well, floor finish, used for (mostly) commercial floors like VCT (vinyl composition tile), have, or used to have tin in them. Here's a quote I found: "The polishes used in most of these systems are generally cross-link metal interlock systems made of acrylic polymers" . So I would guess that's an acrylic coating from that "other detailer". As far as "sparkle"...um, it doesn't have tin flakes in it. Chemistry is complicated...I remember having threads on another forum where people would say that Dawn would dull automotive trim because it was removing the oil from it. And I would say that plastic doesn't have oil in it, and the response would be "it's made from oil!", and I would reply that if you bake a cake using eggs, you can't squeeze the cake and get eggs back out of it. Oil may be used to create feed-stocks used to make plastic, but plastic doesn't have oil in it, per se. And if there are metal oxides in a coating...it's not going to be tin-plating your car.

You know years ago on another forum there were some experiments run by one of the members, and it was shown that the things that detailers do to "strip" the surface don't really work. This was for a standard sealant--washed with Dawn and the beading went away--sealant stripped! Except then the surface was wiped with IPA and the beading returned. Dawn stripped! It turns out that a lot of things can "clog" the surface of a coating or sealant, which disrupts the beading, then if you can remove the contaminant without removing the LSP, then the beading will return. Bottom line we found out a lot of the things we thought were stripping sealants weren't really doing that. This was backed up by an anonymous chemist on that forum who actually worked at a mfr. of car products in Europe, and validated the results, telling us it was very difficult to chemically remove the silicone components from their mixing equipment, and that the idea that dish detergent or an IPA wipe would remove a sealant was nonsense.

I believe that hydrophobicity, if that's a word, is actually measured by the contact angle of the beading...the higher the contact angle the rounder the bead. Most of us that have waxed a lot of cars have had the same experience as the OP, where the beading changes over time, and take that as an indication that the protection is less than it was originally. As we have learned over the years, in a lot of instances the protection is still there, however it has become "clogged" by contaminants. In this case, it could be contaminants washed down with the rain, such as from overhanging trees, etc. Of course, as someone on another forum many years ago used to say, the best way to get that "just waxed" look...is to have just waxed the car. Heijneker, you might want to think about Gloss-Coat or another coating, or using ONRWW to get a little fresh wax with your wash.

Glad you got better results this time, Ron. As I noted previously, I use a cheap (foam) tire swipe, so it doesn't bother me if it gets torn up, it was 50 cents, works well.

I've been using just a cheap tire swipe to apply my ersatz TPC (GCR). I wash it out after and have been able to reuse it lots of times. I usually use OPC 1:3 to clean tires, so I use that a few times, then go through a few other tire cleaners before putting the coating on. The ribs can be tough to get clean, I've been using a scrub brush made by...if I can remember the name....S.M. Arnold. It's pretty stiff, maybe they should sell a brush like that in the Optimum store. I coated my tires a couple of weeks ago, I probably scrubbed them 6 or 7 times...and this was the backs, that have never even had dressing on them. I did find when I got to the 4th wheel, that just rinsing the brush out and continuing to scrub saved me some cleaning product at the end, rather than rinsing and re-spraying every time.

RO and DI together, that's a new one on me. I'll stick by my advice to the OP that he should get a jug of distilled water at the supermarket before he invests in a DI tank and and RO system.

Just out of curiosity, the base/color coat was a 1K paint, correct? Laquer? To backtrack a bit, I can't really follow what prep you did on the basecoat, but generally I understand that it's kind of porous and you wouldn't have had to do any prep other than removing any dust. Since CCR is basically a 1K clear, it probably has a lot higher solvent content than a current waterborne or even solventborne high solids 2K clear, it doesn't surprise me at all that it would remove basecoat, especially since you are "rubbing" vs. "spraying". I haven't been following CCR too much, but it does seem like a product with a very narrow range of applications, since it's not for failed clear, and not for good clear, only for "damaged clear". As always, use proper respiratory protection when using products like 2K clear or CCR, the effects of polyisocyanates can be cumulative.

I'm not sure I agree with that...since DI is an ion-exchange process and RO is a membrane filtration process, my knowledge is that neither of them will provide an end product that is as "pure" as properly distilled water, although the goal of all 3 is largely the same. There are pros and cons to each method which would lead you to choose one over the other in an industrial or business setting, but for the OP's use distilled water is a more than adequate solution; many detailers use distilled water from the supermarket at $1/gal for waterless and even rinseless washing.