gbackus Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I didn't realize until recently(looking up CAS #'s on all of my MSDS sheets) that one of the hazardous components in Optimum's Heavy Duty Degreaser was Butyl Cellosolve. I've always tried to stay away from this component as I'd been warned that it can be harsh on fabric fibers, and vinyl components that have been dyed; As well as possibly staining paint and aluminum components, and over long term use the possible breaking down of some resin systems used for wheel coatings. Of course, this information comes from manufactures to provide butyl free all purpose cleaners and degreasers, and looking up CAS #'s won't really provide this kind of information. Bearing that in mind, I realize that manufacturers will always try to make their own product appear to be better and/or safer than other products on the market, so I was hoping that maybe David could provide a straight answer, and explain to basis, or lack of basis for these claims? Remember, I'm not making any claims about these chemicals, as I am not a chemist, I am just trying to hear both sides of the argument so that I can make a better informed decision and choose the product that I feel to be safest to me, my customer, and my customer's vehcile. Alright, now that I've gotten that out of the way, I had a question regarding dilution rates for Optimum degreaser. I know the standard dilution is 5:1, but is there any room for play for stronger/lighter cleaning, and if so, exactly how much range do I have for dilution rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Orosco Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I didn't realize until recently(looking up CAS #'s on all of my MSDS sheets) that one of the hazardous components in Optimum's Heavy Duty Degreaser was Butyl Cellosolve. I've always tried to stay away from this component as I'd been warned that it can be harsh on fabric fibers, and vinyl components that have been dyed; As well as possibly staining paint and aluminum components, and over long term use the possible breaking down of some resin systems used for wheel coatings. Of course, this information comes from manufactures to provide butyl free all purpose cleaners and degreasers, and looking up CAS #'s won't really provide this kind of information. Bearing that in mind, I realize that manufacturers will always try to make their own product appear to be better and/or safer than other products on the market, so I was hoping that maybe David could provide a straight answer, and explain to basis, or lack of basis for these claims? Remember, I'm not making any claims about these chemicals, as I am not a chemist, I am just trying to hear both sides of the argument so that I can make a better informed decision and choose the product that I feel to be safest to me, my customer, and my customer's vehcile. Alright, now that I've gotten that out of the way, I had a question regarding dilution rates for Optimum degreaser. I know the standard dilution is 5:1, but is there any room for play for stronger/lighter cleaning, and if so, exactly how much range do I have for dilution rates? I have diluted all the way down to 10:1 for interior cleaning and I have used it full strength for some really nasty tires. I'm moving this to the "Ask Dr.G" area so he can give you a much more in-depth reply. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor G Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Geroge, It is great that you do you research before using products and I am happy to answer your questions regarding chemical components. I must also warn you since there are a great deal of mis-information and misconceptions that exists. Some of the disinformation is created by competing companies trying to market their own chemical products. Butyl Cellusolve (aka EB, aka ethoxylated butyl ether) is a great example of a product that was used for many years in household cleaners inlcuding Formula 409. Then one company trying to take business away from another showed data that EB causes cancer and is a teratogen and we and many others including Johnson Wax (maker of Formula 409) switched to other solvents such as Arco's propylene glycol methyl ether and propylene glycol butyl ether. After several years and a wide range of testing, it was shown that not only EB is not hazardous at these levels, but also some of these other glycol ethers are more hazardous. So knowing this we started using it again for the following reasons: 1. It is a great solvent for removing grease and dirt without damaging paint, fabric, leather, etc. 2. It evaporates at an excellent rate; not too fast to cause drying issues, and not too slow to cause streaking issues. 3. The alternatives are higher molecular weight glycol ethers such as dipropylene glycol methyl ether which are very slow. 4. Another alternative that is very inexpensive is caustic which does cause damage to paint and other substrates. There are many other reasons to add here including availability, ease of use, odor, water solubility, etc... As for the dilution rate for Optimum APC, we generally recommend 1:5 dilution (1 gallon makes 6 gallons. However, you can use it as strong as 1:3 and as dilute as 1:10 depending on your application. As Anthony mentioned, you can also use it straight on tires but definitely not on painted surfaces. I hope this sufficiently answers your question and if not please feel free to reply here or call us. Thanks again. David, I didn't realize until recently(looking up CAS #'s on all of my MSDS sheets) that one of the hazardous components in Optimum's Heavy Duty Degreaser was Butyl Cellosolve. I've always tried to stay away from this component as I'd been warned that it can be harsh on fabric fibers, and vinyl components that have been dyed; As well as possibly staining paint and aluminum components, and over long term use the possible breaking down of some resin systems used for wheel coatings. Of course, this information comes from manufactures to provide butyl free all purpose cleaners and degreasers, and looking up CAS #'s won't really provide this kind of information. Bearing that in mind, I realize that manufacturers will always try to make their own product appear to be better and/or safer than other products on the market, so I was hoping that maybe David could provide a straight answer, and explain to basis, or lack of basis for these claims? Remember, I'm not making any claims about these chemicals, as I am not a chemist, I am just trying to hear both sides of the argument so that I can make a better informed decision and choose the product that I feel to be safest to me, my customer, and my customer's vehcile. Alright, now that I've gotten that out of the way, I had a question regarding dilution rates for Optimum degreaser. I know the standard dilution is 5:1, but is there any room for play for stronger/lighter cleaning, and if so, exactly how much range do I have for dilution rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Orosco Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Now that was a great reply Dr. G Enjoyed reading that, thanks. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbackus Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Thanks Dr. G. Like I said over the phone, it's hard to know what to believe, as you have some manufacturers pushing one line, others pushing the other line, and some won't even discuss the ingredients of their "trade secret" products so I try to get what information I can and make my decision from there. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and giving me more information to lookup. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 That was a good read! I know who I am emailing my chem homework to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 That was a good read! I know who I am emailing my chem homework to No s**t!! I got a B in intro to chem and a C in chem 1 in college, where I knew I had reached my limit for chemistry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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