Iann Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi guys Without wanting to bore everyone with a very long story, I would just like to get a second opinion about the behavior of the coating on my car. This is a clean and decontaminated car with Opticoat Pro + on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw3q4SOV2Mw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xJFaj28HTo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Z6cnoGBAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfHXfHBsvyQ The retailer has already agreed to do the hood, roof and top of trunk again but not the sides of the car ... claiming it's working perfectly. Hard to not be skeptical when each horizontal panel is considered to not be working correctly and the only thing that seems to keep the vertical panels to showcase the exact same behavior is gravity as the entire car has been cleaned and taken care of the same way. What do you think? Is this considered to be an efficient less than a year old Opticoat pro+ behavior? Am I just crazy to expect a 1400$ coating to have hydrophobic properties similar to a sealant that cost me 30$ a bottle? This is my mother's car which I take care of personally and this is what it looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exiduvo-Eio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILrFMrslevA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74swFTSPThA Thanks for the help you can provide me with Iann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Why don't you put some of that $30 sealant on top of the Opti-Coat, I'm sure it will bead like your mother's Subie. I'm sure your coating is still on there, it just tends to clog and lose the hydrophobicity, just like clearcoat does. I've still got a high spot on the bumper of one of my cars from when the applicator slipped while I was applying Opti-Lens to the headlights...five years ago or so. The headlights yellowed and I polished off the Opti-Lens off the headlights long ago, but it's still going strong on the bumper. The use of a pressure washer is a good technique to avoid wash-induced marring; what wash do you use? You say your car is "clean and decontaminated"; can you outline what steps you used to acheive that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iann Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Setec Astronomy said: Why don't you put some of that $30 sealant on top of the Opti-Coat, I'm sure it will bead like your mother's Subie. I'm sure your coating is still on there, it just tends to clog and lose the hydrophobicity, just like clearcoat does. I've still got a high spot on the bumper of one of my cars from when the applicator slipped while I was applying Opti-Lens to the headlights...five years ago or so. The headlights yellowed and I polished off the Opti-Lens off the headlights long ago, but it's still going strong on the bumper. The use of a pressure washer is a good technique to avoid wash-induced marring; what wash do you use? You say your car is "clean and decontaminated"; can you outline what steps you used to acheive that? Thanks for the reply. Yeah putting a sealant on top of it is what I intend to do (unless being told it could ''damage'' somehow) ... but seeing how it never seemed to perform like advertised leads me to believe it may not have been installed correctly and with it comes the doubt that it may not be as efficient as it should be when it comes to protecting the paint. I have paid 1400$ on a coating so I want it to work correctly without having to ''patch'' it's lack of efficiency. The car was decontaminated twice since it has had opticoat pro+ applied to it (November 2018). Once by me and once by the detailer. I sprayed Ferrex on the entire car for an initial chemical decontamination and then rinsed everything. I then followed with a mechanical decontamination with the use of a clay cloth as suggested by the detailer and a mix of Optimum no rinse and distilled water as the lubricating agent. When this showed no improvement, I brought the car to the detailer who rubbed ferrex on the car using a microfiber cloth which showed no improvement either. As for the regular wash itself which happened every 2 weeks or so on average 1 - Rinse car using pressure washer to get most of the dirt off 2 - Pre-Wash using Optimum Wash mix with distilled water in foam canon (letting it sit for a few minutes) 3 - Rinse with pressure washer 4 - Wash car with two bucket method using either Optimum No Rinse or Optimum Car Wash 5 - Rinse 5 - Dry the car using a microfiber towel Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I understand your frustration with paying a lot of money and feeling you've not gotten your money's worth. Two observations about coatings in general and OPT coating in particular...coatings tend to not be as slick as waxes or sealants, and they can "clog" which is to say that things adhere to them, whether it's environmental contaminants, surfactants from wash products, etc. This "clogging" changes the beading and sheeting properties of the coating. As I understand it, the Opti-Coat Pro+ was a hybrid topper coating to provide some extra slickness and hydrophobicity, but this topper is not as durable as the OC Pro base. It's possible with all the mechanical decontamination it's been degraded a bit. I guess I'm a bit of a cynic, but coatings in a lot of ways are not quantum leaps in surface protection, but more of an iterative advance. They aren't a magic force field that keep your car perfect and never degrade. I doubt the installation is faulty, but who knows. Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guz Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 How long has the coating been on the paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iann Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Setec Astronomy said: I understand your frustration with paying a lot of money and feeling you've not gotten your money's worth. Two observations about coatings in general and OPT coating in particular...coatings tend to not be as slick as waxes or sealants, and they can "clog" which is to say that things adhere to them, whether it's environmental contaminants, surfactants from wash products, etc. This "clogging" changes the beading and sheeting properties of the coating. As I understand it, the Opti-Coat Pro+ was a hybrid topper coating to provide some extra slickness and hydrophobicity, but this topper is not as durable as the OC Pro base. It's possible with all the mechanical decontamination it's been degraded a bit. I guess I'm a bit of a cynic, but coatings in a lot of ways are not quantum leaps in surface protection, but more of an iterative advance. They aren't a magic force field that keep your car perfect and never degrade. I doubt the installation is faulty, but who knows. Where are you located? It is very frustrating indeed, I'm honestly starting to regret not putting a PFF on the entire car with a sealant on top of it. As for the decontamination ; it was only done because I thought it was maybe the source of the poor behavior of the coating in the first place. So I wouldnt blame it on that since it was behaving this way before any decontamination was done. Although the retailer claims it was working fine when they first applied the coating and when I brought the car in for a wash within the first 30 days period. Which leads me to doubt their abilities as I don't understand how he can claim he tested it when all he did was ; 1 - Pressure rinse the car 2 - Wash the car using a big Optimum red sponge and Optimum No rinse 3 - Dry the car with a towel How was the coating tested here? No water was applied on the cleaned car = No way to see behavior of cleaned coating. And water falling off the car during washing process using a NO RINSE product is no indication of a working coating unless I'm missing something. The lubricants in the product are causing the water to sheet away easily ... not the coating. I'm located in Montreal, Quebec, Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iann Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, The Guz said: How long has the coating been on the paint? It will be a year in 2 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 there's a lot to consider here. The Pro installer is your first call and best bet to solve this. Are the hydrophobics your only complaint? I will admit getting frustrated trying to determine whether the water beads are too big or sheet too fast...people's expectations are sometimes hard to meet (specially on an expensive application). I can't agree with Setec's comment that "coatings tend to not be as slick as waxes or sealants", or that they "clog", that isn't my experience or that of any customers I've talked to. Hyper Seal is a great sealant that adds gloss, slickness and is durable on ceramic coatings, but shouldn't be necessary on your OCP+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Contamination is usually the cause when OCP+ doesn't bead well or loses it's gloss, but you had that done professionally and personally. Does your installer have any ideas/explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ron@Optimum said: I can't agree with Setec's comment that "coatings tend to not be as slick as waxes or sealants", or that they "clog", that isn't my experience or that of any customers I've talked to. Well, OC 2.0 definitely wasn't slick, and neither is Opti-Lens. I don't have enough experience with Gloss-Coat to comment on that, nor do I have any experience with OC Pro, or Pro+. However, it's my observation from other forums that loss of hydrophobicity is a common coating complaint; some coating manufacturers even make special shampoos to remove contaminants and "reset" the coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iann Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Ron@Optimum said: there's a lot to consider here. The Pro installer is your first call and best bet to solve this. Are the hydrophobics your only complaint? I will admit getting frustrated trying to determine whether the water beads are too big or sheet too fast...people's expectations are sometimes hard to meet (specially on an expensive application). I can't agree with Setec's comment that "coatings tend to not be as slick as waxes or sealants", or that they "clog", that isn't my experience or that of any customers I've talked to. Hyper Seal is a great sealant that adds gloss, slickness and is durable on ceramic coatings, but shouldn't be necessary on your OCP+ Well yes essentially my only complaint is the hydrophobics. And I'm complaining about it because it leads me to question wether it stops at just the hydrophobics or if the integrity of the coating is not fonctionning properly and thus is not protecting my car like it should. I do feel like it does seem to scratch easily but I have been told it's normal. A lot of micro scratches on top of my trunk before the car's very first wash has me questionning the quality of the coating (Or the job they did on the clear coat of the car before applying Opticoat on it) 1 hour ago, Ron@Optimum said: Contamination is usually the cause when OCP+ doesn't bead well or loses it's gloss, but you had that done professionally and personally. Does your installer have any ideas/explanation? My installer has no idea what happened. And he went as far as saying that he doesnt want to do the sides because he feels they are fine (Are they?) and because he does not know what happenend to the car after I left with it ... almost making it seem like it was something I did (Or did not do). Claiming he had tested it when I came back for a wash yet no testing was done (See my other post above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 23 hours ago, Iann said: It will be a year in 2 weeks In that time has a decontamination wash been performed? Contaminants still stick on the paint and will mask the hydrophobic properties of any coating. It may be worth to do a decontamination wash and see if that helps. 22 hours ago, Iann said: Well yes essentially my only complaint is the hydrophobics. And I'm complaining about it because it leads me to question wether it stops at just the hydrophobics or if the integrity of the coating is not fonctionning properly and thus is not protecting my car like it should. I do feel like it does seem to scratch easily but I have been told it's normal. A lot of micro scratches on top of my trunk before the car's very first wash has me questionning the quality of the coating (Or the job they did on the clear coat of the car before applying Opticoat on it) My installer has no idea what happened. And he went as far as saying that he doesnt want to do the sides because he feels they are fine (Are they?) and because he does not know what happenend to the car after I left with it ... almost making it seem like it was something I did (Or did not do). Claiming he had tested it when I came back for a wash yet no testing was done (See my other post above) The first thing is that coatings are not impervious to scratching or swirling. In the big picture the layer of coating is just to thin when applied to the paint. After a year you will more than likely need a polish for this exact reason you mentioned about micro-marring. Most come from the washing and drying process. Have you thought about polishing and re-coating yourself? Most of these multi year claims are just that, claims. Lab claims are different than real world performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iann Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, The Guz said: In that time has a decontamination wash been performed? Contaminants still stick on the paint and will mask the hydrophobic properties of any coating. It may be worth to do a decontamination wash and see if that helps. The first thing is that coatings are not impervious to scratching or swirling. In the big picture the layer of coating is just to thin when applied to the paint. After a year you will more than likely need a polish for this exact reason you mentioned about micro-marring. Most come from the washing and drying process. Have you thought about polishing and re-coating yourself? Most of these multi year claims are just that, claims. Lab claims are different than real world performance. Yes twice, once by me after winter because I thought that contamination may have been the problem and when this changed nothing at all the installer did it himself with no success. I know they are not impervious like i said in my comment that you quoted, but micro scratches showing on a barely month old coating that has NOT been washed ONCE yet left me skeptical ; Either the paint preparion left marks on the paint/clear coat or the coating is soft as hell and wind/dust left these marks. Polishing and recoating when I paid for a 1400$ product that has a 7 years warranty??? Hell no I am not touching this, if the coating's behavior is considered to not be what it should be the installer will do it until it's done correctly or they will fully refund me. That is why I am here and so far nobody has ''confirmed'' my doubts, I want people to give me their opinion about the behavior displayed in the videos I linked. Is the coating on the side panels showing expected behavior or is it not? The installer has agreed to do the horizontal panels again but not the sides. I feel like he needs to do the whole car again, am I wrong? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Iann said: That is why I am here and so far nobody has ''confirmed'' my doubts, I want people to give me their opinion about the behavior displayed in the videos I linked. Is the coating on the side panels showing expected behavior or is it not? The installer has agreed to do the horizontal panels again but not the sides. I feel like he needs to do the whole car again, am I wrong? To me the coating looks like it's working on the sides. The water response on the hood is pretty flat, I would expect it to be better than that. I had no idea the OC Pro+ warranty was 7 years. I believe it has been suggested on other forums, that the warranties are somewhat meaningless because in the real world cars get contaminants and wash-induced marring after a year or two, and that they may need to be polished and reapplied. That being said you have a very sound wash regimen. Trying to be fair and seeing this from both sides, the detailer has only your word about what was done to the car after it left his shop. Since the coating seems to be working properly on the sides, I understand why he is only offering to redo the horizontal surfaces. I also understand your frustration. As to your concerns that the coating was improperly applied, if this was an experienced installer I'm quite sure your basecoat of OC Pro is there and intact. Since as I understand it the + portion is a hybrid coating similar to Gloss-Coat, it may be that has degraded and needs to be replaced. I have limited experience with Gloss-Coat, but out in the larger forum world it has mixed reviews regarding longevity (bear in mind that most waxes/sealants/coatings get mixed reviews, depending on environment). As someone on another forum used to say "the best way to get that "just waxed" look...is to have just waxed". My opinion is that your hydrophobicity is going to degrade over time, even though the coating is still there. You may want to incorporate some Opti-Seal or OCW into your drying process to refresh it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guz Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Depends on what the warranty says. Warranties as mentioned don't mean that much. But at times like this you are going to have to take it up with your installer or contact someone at Optimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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