TheMeanGreen Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Imitation is the best form of flattery. As good as Mckee's 37 N-914 is, I still haven't found it to leave windows as streak free as ONR or soften water as well. Due to me liking ONR for various purposes inside the vehicle, it will always stay in my arsenal. But speaking in terms of competition, there are many new players out in the Rinseless market, is there any chance Dr. G is playing with new formulations in the lab?😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Dr G is always looking for ways to improve products...and with all the new rinseless washes out there, I've yet to see one that performs better than ONR. KcKees claims to be slicker....define slickness to me and prove the claim. Even Yvan LaCroix, who's doing product demos for McKees, doesn't specifically say it's better. darrvao777 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 9:29 AM, Ron@Optimum said: There is no new version of ONR, but it's possible we've changed suppliers for the color component...or the ratio. Color has nothing to do with performance...in fact, after mixing the color goes away due to dilution. I'm not sure what the story is with McKees - when they were owners of Autopia (Palm Beach), they were major distributor of Optimum products, now they seem to be targeting our products. That video wasn't made by McKee's...if there was a target for N-914 it was the discontinued Meguiar's D114. As far as the story...it sure doesn't look like Mr. McKee is retiring as it seemed. 19 hours ago, Ron@Optimum said: Dr G is always looking for ways to improve products...and with all the new rinseless washes out there, I've yet to see one that performs better than ONR. KcKees claims to be slicker....define slickness to me and prove the claim. Even Yvan LaCroix, who's doing product demos for McKees, doesn't specifically say it's better. Ha...what the heck is Yvan doing? If he goes around as a "trainer for all things detailing" doing videos for anyone and everyone who will pay him, he's going to lose all credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I'm curious as well - using McKees to demo Lake Country pads and introduce a new line of D/As is one thing, but shilling for car care products after being the face of OPT does raise questions. My last conversation with Yvan, just after he "retired" it sounded like he wanted to do training seminars. Maybe he sees himself as a youtube star, like Pan the Organizer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A&J Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 It was weird to say the least when I watched Yvan presenting the new 5in1 polisher at Mike Phillips and using standard paste polishes...he used a few dots (very small) when the entire emphasys at OPT was how the spray version coveres the entire pad to not create hot spots. I know it was just a commercial but still. Like Setec said...he will soon lose all credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A&J Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 And as for rinseless washes I did try out a lot a few years back and did a review about them on detail world. There is certanly a few I liked and a few i disliked but I keep coming back to ONR and I am done with others. I did however like surf city garage rinse free water saver a lot...not the pro version but the other one...the blue/greenish one in the bigger bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A&J Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Chemical guys and carpro echo I just disliked....ONR just works...enough said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 and we appreciate you saying so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heijneker Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 3:29 PM, Ron@Optimum said: There is no new version of ONR, but it's possible we've changed suppliers for the color component...or the ratio. Color has nothing to do with performance...in fact, after mixing the color goes away due to dilution. I'm not sure what the story is with McKees - when they were owners of Autopia (Palm Beach), they were major distributor of Optimum products, now they seem to be targeting our products. You can leave out the "seem" I guess, I think they're unshamefully copying OPT. A bit of competition could be a good thing for the consumer, however. Though OPT surely has key advantages over their stuff, in the products on offer and the 'synergy' between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrvao777 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/24/2020 at 7:33 AM, Setec Astronomy said: That video wasn't made by McKee's...if there was a target for N-914 it was the discontinued Meguiar's D114. As far as the story...it sure doesn't look like Mr. McKee is retiring as it seemed. Ha...what the heck is Yvan doing? If he goes around as a "trainer for all things detailing" doing videos for anyone and everyone who will pay him, he's going to lose all credibility. On 2/24/2020 at 9:24 AM, Ron@Optimum said: I'm curious as well - using McKees to demo Lake Country pads and introduce a new line of D/As is one thing, but shilling for car care products after being the face of OPT does raise questions. My last conversation with Yvan, just after he "retired" it sounded like he wanted to do training seminars. Maybe he sees himself as a youtube star, like Pan the Organizer? On 2/24/2020 at 11:42 AM, A&J said: It was weird to say the least when I watched Yvan presenting the new 5in1 polisher at Mike Phillips and using standard paste polishes...he used a few dots (very small) when the entire emphasys at OPT was how the spray version coveres the entire pad to not create hot spots. I know it was just a commercial but still. Like Setec said...he will soon lose all credibility. It's interesting how sometimes we get so invested in a product line (even though I'm not employed by Optimum or stand to gain financially in any way) that we get disappointed when people "jump ship" Yvan certainly has every right to pursue whatever he wishes. But I do agree that it's hard to take him seriously (particularly when you re-watch the tons of old Youtube videos out there when Yvan was promoting Optimum products) when he's now shilling for products that seem to do the opposite of what he used to love about Optimum products (e.g. there's a video on PantheOrganizer's channel of Yvan proudly stating that Optimum doesn't make products for the purpose of making them to sell ; every Optimum product has a purpose. Conversely, I went to McKee's website and the sheer number of products they offer is overwhelming and IMHO, redundant. I know someone else has commented on the changing of his tune from promoting Optimum's patented spray polishes to now promoting standard paste polishes) All in all, disappointing especially if I was a newbie. Hard to figure out which product and which product line he actually recommends when there are videos of his that contradict each other out there on Youtube (this is meant as a compliment for Yvan. He obviously has such great experience and force of personality that people listen when he talks/recommends things.) I am glad I caught the detailing minimalism video he did with The Rag Company when I was starting out myself which was the video that tuned me into Optimum products. Having used them myself now, it would take one heck of a new series of videos to get me to change my personal washing regimen away from Optimum products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.details Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 To resurface this conversation, im a very anal and anxious consumer. I want to get the best product the first time. I hadn’t even heard of N-914 until after buying ONR because of all the grand reviews and years of trust. A few things I’ve noticed: •McKee’s definitely appeared to be trying to use Yvan to do a copy of OPT videos. It’s fairly obvious. •there’s conflicting info on N-914 that the average consumer may not find. At some points Nick calls it a surfactant and in another video he says it *does* indeed contain polymers. People claim to like it because it leaves no polymers behind but it’s a polymer product lol. •the thing that keeps me with ONR the most is the pH and SDS. I had to dig deep online to find any McKees SDS sheets on some Australian distributor site where it was noted it is not a pH neutral product. This means when used on interiors you now need to rinse your rinseless wash, lame. Secondly, I care a lot about products being safe for myself and the environment. I want to know the chemicals I’m handling are safe. Do I think N-914 is unsafe? No! But I do find it off putting when companies hide their SDS sheets and chemical’s information. I guess it’s cool N-914 can be used as a paint prep and waterless wash but ONR can clean my interior as-is with no rinsing, be put in a steamer, is pH neutral when applying over protection, and boasted by the company as being safe for leathers, plastics etc. in my book, this makes ONR still the most versatile and safe rinseless wash. There may be some other smaller companies with similar benefits but OPT just has taken the years of time to build trust within the industry and as someone noted above, doesn’t overwhelm you with products. (McKees website feels like the professional’s version of chemical guys imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Obviously I'm not neutral, but couldn't say it better. Dr G is a very private person and introverted (my opinion, he doesn't agree...but I'm the one with the degree in Psychology) - but I wish you could know him. He is absolutely committed to safe products, easy to use, great value, and with unique qualities. He will not "me to" or expand a line for monetary gain. He is extraordinarily proud and the last few years were difficult due to his illness, causing some personnel disruption from which OPT is still recovering. Bud David is back and engaged, and while Optimum will always be conservative company, we're "accelerating into the future". dlc95 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 15 hours ago, stephen.details said: •the thing that keeps me with ONR the most is the pH and SDS. I had to dig deep online to find any McKees SDS sheets on some Australian distributor site where it was noted it is not a pH neutral product. This means when used on interiors you now need to rinse your rinseless wash, lame. Secondly, I care a lot about products being safe for myself and the environment. I want to know the chemicals I’m handling are safe. Do I think N-914 is unsafe? No! But I do find it off putting when companies hide their SDS sheets and chemical’s information. The companies like McKee's and his left-behind PBMG products (and there are others), that don't blend their own products, tend to not want to provide MSDS's to consumers (if you were a professional supposedly you could get a PBMG MSDS, but only after proving you bought the product and providing your TIN). It may have/had to do with SDS regulations that required the blender to produce the MSDS, which would then show that the seller wasn't actually the "manufacturer". The whole subject caused quite a row on one of the PBMG forums years ago, because a pro detailer can be fined by OSHA for not having bottles properly marked and the SDS's at the jobsite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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