Mr.Outback Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Scott also measures sheeting, and gloss (latter was before and after his pro samples were applied to test hood panel). Quite a few products reduced gloss - Optimum's raised it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIS76@ Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Tug Bankert said: Whatever he uses is of no consequence. But you guys, including Scott, are focusing on beading which means not a whole lot. Are products being designed today around "beading"? It appears that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 I can promise you that beading is one of the last things Dr G looks at and is really just a byproduct of the characteristics he is concerned about. Tug and I have both commented on the obsession some have with beading - the amount, the size, how quickly they disperse. I get that beading is one of the easiest observable factors, but the cheapest wax on the shelf will create beads. The qualities Dr G is looking for, in no particular order, are durability, hardness, chemical resistance, appearance, ease of application, value, etc. dlc95, Tug Bankert and Mr.Outback 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Bankert Posted November 25, 2021 Author Share Posted November 25, 2021 On 9/28/2021 at 9:17 PM, KIS76@ said: Are products being designed today around "beading"? It appears that way. Products are not being designed around beading. YouTube part time detailers are the ones focused on beading. If pro detailing is your only income most people tend to have a much better perspective on coating performance and ease of clean than those getting paid by YouTube to have fun with water beads. KIS76@ and Ron@Optimum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Outback Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Rarely mentioned on detailer channels is beading actually concentrate mineral/dirt deposits into little "spots", and it's a major contributor to water spotting (my past cars proved that point after sprinkler shower "rashes") . Still, many coating testers use beading to determine coating durability (no beading? > coating's dead). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Bankert Posted November 25, 2021 Author Share Posted November 25, 2021 No beading does not mean coating is dead. Just like beading does not mean coating is alive. Smearing wd40 on you paint will make water to bead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Outback Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 The coating tester I've seen on Youtube that seems most thorough is Scott HD, and he usually pronounces a coating "dead" once it stops beading and sheeting (in effect, behaves the same as water on clear-coated paint). Many other Youtubers declare a coating "dead" or dying once it resorts to sheeting. My OptiCoat Pro+ goes from beading to sheeting in the areas where road debris frequently deposit themselves on the coating. My understanding is if that happens, it's time for a maintenance wash (usually ONR, but about every 4 months M-Wash or (rarely) Power-Clean followed by rinse/ONR w/ distilled water/micro-fiber dry/Hyper-Seal.). KIS76@ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Bankert Posted November 26, 2021 Author Share Posted November 26, 2021 Beading has to do with surface tension and not a coating being dead. Surface tension can go from beading to sheeting because there is dirt in the way. Dirt from the road is sticky. Tar and salt adhere even to a coating. Not as hard to remove. The cleaner you keep the coating the better it performs. An onr wash once a month and a decon once a year is sufficient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Outback Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Seems good place to mention Allstate's now pushing Scotchguard "amino based resin" paint protection. My Subaru dealer claimed it was the best coating they've worked with (their first "ceramic coating" package was a joke to my Optimum installer, who replaced it with Pro+). I've not heard of amino based resin paint protection and have no idea if it's truly better than the SIC or top SIO2 products - no, I'm not having it installed, "my" Pro+ is at its 1 year anniversary and so far works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Bankert Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 If an insurance company is pushing it and a dealership buys it you can rest assured that it is cheap and easily produced which means its not a long term product but merely an insurance policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Outback Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Scott HD's testing continues and he is seeing differences between Pro+ and Pro3 (visual suggests Pro3 reverts to sheeting more than Pro+). Scott's test is to foam, rinse, foam, wash with sheepswool mitt, then rinse (all with pressure washer), then pressure wash test for beading. If test panel doesn't reject water (either bead or sheet roll off) product's dismissed as failed. No Optimum product has failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 I think Scott reported that Pro+ was "very hydrophobic" and Pro3 showed "some wear". Dr G suggests that Pro+ will bead better, but Pro3 (what we call OC3) sheets water and will be much more durable. For such an in depth test, Scott's comments per product are limited, repetitive...and impossible to quantify. Optimum has always admitted that there's a tradeoff between beading/sheeting, gloss, slickness, and durability - sometimes the chemistry to increase one diminishes another. It's impossible to please everyone, so niches are created so customers can find the product that most pleases them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Outback Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Ron@Optimum said: I think Scott reported that Pro+ was "very hydrophobic" and Pro3 showed "some wear". Dr G suggests that Pro+ will bead better, but Pro3 (what we call OC3) sheets water and will be much more durable. For such an in depth test, Scott's comments per product are limited, repetitive...and impossible to quantify. Optimum has always admitted that there's a tradeoff between beading/sheeting, gloss, slickness, and durability - sometimes the chemistry to increase one diminishes another. It's impossible to please everyone, so niches are created so customers can find the product that most pleases them. Info appreciated, Ron. My most likely last car (am getting on in years) will probably be getting OC3 as I want it to have the most durable protection possible. My understanding is OC3 doesn't need a long wait time after being applied to "drive home" in inclement weather (a factor here in the NW) as my local detailer who does Pro+ is not an "exclusive" Optimum dealer and most likely won't be able to install OC3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 OC3 is 4 layers and usually Hyper Seal is applied last, but you can drive vehicle 1 hour after last coat. Tug Bankert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Bankert Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 I put pro plus on top of pro 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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