ONR Dilution


Bunky

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On another discussion group, some were discussing if they used a different dilution of ONR (not 1 oz per 2 gallons for wash).

 

What is the benefits of using more and the risks of using less? I see at least two components: cleaning ability and lubricity.

 

I assume using more increases lubricity since higher concentrations are recommended for use as AD/clay lube.

 

How are the cleaning properties affected by ONR concentration? As the ONR solution gets dirtier (encapsulate dirt), does the cleaning properties drop?

 

For example, was the decision to recommend 1oz for 2 gallons primarily due to lubricity concerns and less about cleaning?

 

Technically curious....not just trust us it works....

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On another discussion group, some were discussing if they used a different dilution of ONR (not 1 oz per 2 gallons for wash).

 

What is the benefits of using more and the risks of using less? I see at least two components: cleaning ability and lubricity.

 

I assume using more increases lubricity since higher concentrations are recommended for use as AD/clay lube.

 

How are the cleaning properties affected by ONR concentration? As the ONR solution gets dirtier (encapsulate dirt), does the cleaning properties drop?

 

For example, was the decision to recommend 1oz for 2 gallons primarily due to lubricity concerns and less about cleaning?

 

Technically curious....not just trust us it works....

 

Thank you for bringing up this question. The polymers in No Rinse have reactive groups that bond and trap dirt particles making the dirt particles virtually non-abrasive. They also bond to oily particles and emulsify them into water. The latter is equivalent to the cleaning action from soaps which also work by emulsifying oil particles into water. However, with soap there is no interaction with dirt. This is why adding No Rinse to a regular wash also helps protect the paint from dirt particles.

 

The No Rinse polymers also bond to all automotive surfaces and create a slick surface and act as a barrier to protect paint from marring. That is something that soap will not provide since surfactants in soaps have no affinity for painted or other automotive surfaces.

 

When you use 1 oz. of No Rinse in 1 or 2 gallons of water for your wash at the molecular level this provides hundreds of billions of polymer molecules to do what was said above. Additional product will not be necessary except if you are using tap water that contains high levels of minerals such as calcium hydroxide or silicates. In these cases some of the polymers will bond to these minerals and take them out of solution therefore more product might be necessary to compensate for this effect. This is another reason why adding No Rinse to a regular car wash soap improves the results when using tap water.

 

For claying, the recommended level is 2 oz. per gallon, however, the actual product usage is far less. For instance if you are using 16 oz. of clay lube to clay a car, at this dilution you are actually putting 1/4 oz. of No Rinse on the surface. Same thing goes for using No Rinse as a quick detailer.

 

These levels were of course tested for several months and hundreds of washes of heavily soiled cars before we started offering No Rinse three years ago. I hope this helps answer your question. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thanks again.

 

David,

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"tap water that contains high levels of minerals such as calcium hydroxide or silicates"

 

Is there any way to guage this short of having a full water test done? I use 1 OZ of ONR per gallon of tap water and am wondering if I should use more.

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"tap water that contains high levels of minerals such as calcium hydroxide or silicates"

 

Is there any way to guage this short of having a full water test done? I use 1 OZ of ONR per gallon of tap water and am wondering if I should use more.

 

 

What would be considered "high levels of minerals such as calcium hydroxide or silicates".

I can get a current water quality test from our local water utility, but it wouldn't mean anything to me after I read it. :D

 

If you call a water treatment salesman, they can do some basic tests that can tell you how bad your water is. They do not charge for this nut expect some hard selling since their goal is to convince you what you are drinking is chemically similar a toxic waste (chloride, heay metals, etc). If you call Rainsoft, it is almost a religious exoerience.

 

I had a water softener system installed to counteract hard water (staining appliances, clogged shower heads, etc) and it improved the cleaning ability of my car soaps and less spotting issues. I sure could tell in the shower too.

 

I did not notice much improvement with ONR but then I was using 1,5 oz per 2 gallons already looking for the bump in lubricity (real or imaged).

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Getting the water test results is no problem.

Knowing what those results actually mean for my use is where I am lost.

Results from this summer were:

 

Chlorine: 1.44 mg/l

Nitrate: 3.08 mg/l

Hardness: 125 mg/l or 7.37 gr/gal

Ph: 8.85

Fluoride: .99 mg/l

 

I understand that it is somewhat hard, but is it bad enough to need more ONR in my mix?

Do any of the other ingredients indicate a need for a stronger mix than recommended as a start point by Optimum?

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Getting the water test results is no problem.

Knowing what those results actually mean for my use is where I am lost.

Results from this summer were:

 

Chlorine: 1.44 mg/l

Nitrate: 3.08 mg/l

Hardness: 125 mg/l or 7.37 gr/gal

Ph: 8.85

Fluoride: .99 mg/l

 

I understand that it is somewhat hard, but is it bad enough to need more ONR in my mix?

Do any of the other ingredients indicate a need for a stronger mix than recommended as a start point by Optimum?

 

From what I read water over ph 8 is consider extremely hard.

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From what I read water over ph 8 is consider extremely hard.

I'm pretty sure that ph refers to acidity and alkalinity rather than hardness.

The pH scale ranges from 0 to 14. The 0 end of the scale is where the concentration is increasingly acidic. Moving up around 2 is lemon juice and stomach

juices. Then around 3 are vinegar, beer and cola. Next at 4 is tomato juice. Then at 5 is black coffee and rainwater. Followed by urine at 6. Pure water and human blood are at 7. After 7 the concentration starts to become more basic as it heads up the scale. Most biological fluids are between pH 6 and pH8, there are a few exceptions to this like stomach acid.

 

Then between 8 and 9 is seawater. Then at 10 is milk of magnesia. Followed by household ammonia

at 11, household bleach at 12. Then between 13 and 14 is oven cleaner. Products at the two extremes (less than pH 1 or greater than pH 13) are extremely oppressive and corrosive. Examples include, sulfuric and hydrochloric acid on the acid end, and caustic soda on the alkaline end. Use solutions of phosphoric or sulfamic acid cleaners, typically in the pH range of slightly less than 2, may be described as "safe" acids comparison to the stronger acids.

I do think you are correct in that hardness over 8 grains is considered hard water.

Water Quality Research Council's Water Supply Classifications

Soft Water 0 to 1 grains per gallon

Slightly Hard Water 1 to 3½ grains per gallon

Moderately Hard Water 3½ to 7 grains per gallon

Hard Water 7 to 10½ grains per gallon

Very Hard Water Over 10½ grains per gallon

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