Against Mr. Phelps

Anthony Orosco

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This may seem like a rather odd subject to be speaking of on an automotive detailing board but I feel that 1) it’s a very important and critical topic, especially in today’s political and cultural environment and 2) this is my forum so I can speak on any subject I wish!


The war we have going on now in Iraq is gut wrenching in that we want the war to end yet we also want to be safe and that freedom comes at a very high cost. It costs our soldiers their blood, sweat and tears and I for one am very thankful to them for their service and their sacrifice. I, along with millions of others, hold them in high honor and they truly are heroes. They fight for our freedom, they fight over there so we don’t have to have the fight here and yes they also fight for people like Reverend (and I use that term with disgust) Phelps to wear shirts that say, “God hates fags!” and protest the funerals of our dead soldiers.


Now the irony here is that Mr. Phelps (I will no longer use the word “reverend” because he has no idea what that word means) and his band of zombies he calls a “church” are able to wear those shirts, preach their hate and disrupt the funerals of fallen soldiers because he lives in a free and democratic society and the very soldiers they mock and bring dishonor to have spilled their blood so they can have a church that preaches such hate. It would be a different world for Phelps had Hitler’s war machine won or had America been overthrown by Muslim extremists. Sadly this type of argument will go no where with Phelps and people like him because he feels far superior to all others for he alone has the one true message of God, the Almighty. He alone knows and has the truth and all others are an “abomination” for he and his followers alone preach the “true gospel”, which is that God hates everyone but Phelps and those who hold to his theology, ideology, and his formula of truth.


You can’t win an argument with a person or persons who are irrational so I’m not even going to attempt that because I’ve seen them on TV and they can’t be civil. Rather I’m going to attack their arguments and claims which they base on the Bible and if any of the Phelps family or their followers wish to disagree then I welcome them to post up a rebuttal and show me where I’m in error using logic, reasoning and Scripture. This though is where it becomes difficult for people who are irrational, like Phelps, because they have a God complex and who am I to dare question them?!


So, let’s have at it, shall we?


God hates fags?


Phelps argues that the Bible says, “God hates fags!” To prove his point he is even so kind as to give us the Bible verses which I’ll list here as this is directly from


In summary, sodomites are wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen. 13:13), are violent and doom nations (Gen. 19:1-25; Jgs. 19), are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs because they are filthy, impudent and libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6; Phil. 3:2), produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication from their wine made from grapes of gall from the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps (Deut. 32:32,33), declare their sin and shame on their countenance (Isa. 3:9), are shameless and unable to blush (Jer. 6:15), are workers of iniquity and hated by God (Psa. 5:5), are liars and murderers (Jn. 8:44), are filthy and lawless (2 Pet. 2:7,8), are natural brute beasts (2 Pet. 2:12), are dogs eating their own vomit and sows wallowing in their own feces (2 Pet. 2:22), will proliferate at the end of the world bringing final judgment on mankind (Lk. 17:28-30), have been finally given up by God to uncleanness dishonoring their own bodies among themselves, to vile affections, and to a reprobate mind such that they cannot think straight about anything (Rom. 1:23-28), have wholly given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh (Jude 7), must be pulled as faggots from the fire (Jude 23), and have no hope of Heaven unless they repent (Rev. 22:15), which they can't do in their prideful state (Jer. 6:15). They need to hear this truth if they are to have any hope of penitence, faith in Jesus Christ and salvation (I Timothy 4:2-4).



Before I reply I want everyone to understand that there are rules and laws for interpretation, not only of Scripture, but all written material. There’s a big fancy word which describes the art and science of interpretation which is, “Hermeneutics”. It basically means that when one reads (in our case here the Scriptures) they are not to isolate a passage or verse, to remove it from its context or to give it a meaning not intended by the author. One should not come to Scripture with a preconceived notion or idea of what Scripture OUGHT to say on a given subject for if this rule is violated then the Bible can be made to say just about anything. One also takes into account the original language, the etymology of words used, the writers intended audience, etc. So one may violate the laws of interpretation regarding, say homosexuals, when reading the Bible if they come at it with the preconceived notion that God hates fags.


“God must hate fags, because I hate fags. They’re disgusting and an abomination. I’ll see what Gods word says on the subject!”


So when one has that preconceived idea and then reads this passage from Scripture:


Gen. 13:13 - Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the LORD.


The Bible confirms it! Their belief is a righteous one and has been confirmed by the Bible. God hates fags and they are wicked.


Here’s my question to Phelps. Where do we read “fags” or even “homosexuals” in this passage? Also, is it just “men” that are “wicked exceedingly” or women and animals also that are in Sodom? It should be noted that in the Hebrew culture women were never counted so when it reads, “There was a gathering of 2000 men” there could of also been 1000 women. I’ll quickly demonstrate where Phelps is wrong and has no idea what he’s talking about based on his erroneous use of Genesis 13:13.


First, as I stated already, no where does Gen. 13:13 say anything, even in the original language, about “fags” or “homosexuals”. It only speaks of “men” who are “wicked” and “sinners”. Second, ALL mankind are wicked and sinners before God, not just homosexuals nor, in this case, just the men of Sodom. Third and lastly, the sins of Sodom were many, not just sodomy alone as we read in these passages.


Ezekial 16:49 "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.


Ezekial 16:50 "Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.


So what Phelps has done is took the act of sodomy joined it with the use of the word “men” in Genesis 13:13 to conclude that all men of Sodom are “sodomites” but not in the sense of just citizens of that city but rather as all men of Sodom being “fags”. Yet we don’t see any mention of any sexual sins in Ezekial 16:49, 50 do we? Does this mean that there were no sexual sins in Sodom? Of course not for there were but God did not seek to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah based solely on homosexual activity.


Homosexuals are abominations to God!


Phelps goes on to state that homosexuals are abominations to God according to Leviticus 18:22.


Lev. 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.


Phelps is correct here. The act of homosexuality is an abomination to God. Yet we also read in Proverbs 6:16 – 19 this:


16There are six things which the LORD hates,

Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:

17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,

And hands that shed innocent blood,

18A heart that devises wicked plans,

Feet that run rapidly to evil,

19A false witness who utters lies,

And one who spreads strife among brothers.


In fact, ALL sin is an abomination to God, not just homosexuality. Phelps though seeks to single out homosexuals as being especially dirty and nasty. Again does God see homosexuality as a sin? Yes He does, just as he sees heterosexuals committing adultery and fornication a sin also.



Homosexuals deserve death!



Phelps argues that homosexuals deserve death, they deserve the wrath of God as does all of America for letting homosexuals practice their sin. His basis for this again lies in the Bible.


Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.


First, capital punishment in Biblical times was NOT just a random thing taken on by just anybody. The Biblical phrase, “an eye for an eye” was not meant to encourage revenge but rather to discourage it! If a farmer had a sheep stolen and he found it at another farm he could not take back his sheep plus 3 chickens 2 cows and then kill all his sheep but rather he had to let the judges oversee the matter and they would deal out the sentence. So no one but the judges of the Jews could rule death to a guilty party.


Second, I wonder if Mr. Phelps can find me anything within ancient Jewish writing were one man was ever killed under this law? If I remember correctly there is no record of any man being executed under this law. Why? Because the men committing such an act had to be caught in the very act. Not just one offender but both or all.


Lastly, this is a Levitical law and as such many Bible scholars believe this to then be a Ceremonial Law but we are now under the Law or Covenant of Grace so the act of homosexuality is no longer a capital offense although it is still a sin.


Just about every passage that Phelps refers to he has mutilated and grossly twisted to fit his own warped preconceived ideas of what the Bible OUGHT to say because he holds himself out to be something of an apostle or Christ-like messenger of Gods wrath.


Here is another statement from





I will use this statement to demonstrate how illogical Phelps mind is. If they truly believed that homosexuals, (sinners in general) have no chance at being saved because God has “given up on them” why on earth then are they picketing funerals with their version of the “gospel”?? Who are they seeking to save and/or warn about Gods wrath if in fact God has already given up on them? So it comes down to Phelps needing attention.


What would Jesus do?


Yeah this might be rather corny to some now but it has a great deal of merit on this topic because Christians are to be “imitators” of Christ Jesus. Paul writes to the Corinthians and declares to them:


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.


So as I scan my memory of my years reading Scripture I can’t seem to remember reading any funerals Jesus went to and He and His disciples picketed them with messages that God hates them. I can’t seem to remember any apostles doing this either.


In fact the only funeral or better, “tomb” Jesus went to was that of Lazarus but not to condemn him to hell but rather to raise him up from the dead. Instead of causing the people mourning the death of Lazarus more grief Jesus sought to comfort them. Stark contrast to Phelps and his cult followers.


Did not Jesus minister to the sinners? He ate with them, spoke with them and reached out to them. Not to condone their sin but rather to tell them, “Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand!”


As Believers we are told in Scripture to go among the nations and “preach the gospel” but never are we told to preach hate for that is not the Gospel. The Gospel, in a nutshell, is given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4:


1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,

2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,



Phelps drags the gospel through the proverbial mud and blackens the eye of Christ Jesus and on that day when a loved one of his dies, hundreds of people will flock to the funeral to mock and picket it and then thank God for their death as it will be one less loon on the earth. As much as people would love to do this I’m sure, I would rather hope and pray that people hold up signs that read….”We’re sorry for your loss Mr. Phelps”


Why? Because this world has enough hate and anger in it already and perhaps it’s time we seek to turn that around.


None of these arguments presented will convince Phelps he is wrong for he again has a God complex but what I sought to do was inform people who watch this Phelps guy and then get angry at Christians in general as they lump all Christians together with this "way out in right field" cult. Christians can be intelligent and not just Bible thumpers. Perhaps this will also help others out when they come across people such as the Phelps.



Thank you for reading,


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Anthony, I appreciate the write-up!



I agree 100% with the way you went about seeking to determine what the Scriptures say about homosexuality and how Mr. Phelps has taken verses out of context to support his point. In Bible class in high school we were taught "a text out of context is a pretext for trouble."


I am glad that you put the correct perspective on the issue, that God is not pleased with homosexuality, but we also shouldn't single that one sin out and be hating on people for it. By loving others and building relationships with them, we can truly make a difference in their lives, and we can also be in a situation to lovingly show them how and why they should change certain things in their life.


I'm glad to see that I run with a good class of people on the detailing forums!!



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  • 2 months later...

Thanks for the comments people. I'm not new to debate or apologetics as I've studied counter cult apologetics/philosophy for a good number of years now but had to step back from it as it began to consume my whole life, even coming before my business. I sought to no longer share the Good News but rather sought to utterly annihilate the other person and their beliefs. Soon people would no longer engage with me on-line in chat rooms or forums. Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses stopped knocking on my door and would just walk right past my house so my wife sat me down one day and told me I was way off the deep end and thank God I listened to her.


So I now pick and choose my arguments and I seek to argue more in terms of correcting those seeking to distort Biblical doctrines. I usally leave the Hindus, atheists, Buddhists and the host of others alone now.....and the Mormons are coming back to my door :thumbsupup[1]:


Thanks again,


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  • 2 months later...


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