MIXING ONR & REGULAR CAR SOAP; QUESTION:

[TheMeanGreen]

As the title states, this question is regarding adding ONR to regular Car Soap. Specifically car soap at 1:30 and adding one ounce of ONR to the mix for a total of 32oz of solution. Is there any situation where adding ONR to a regular car soap/apc/degreaser will allow the preexisting solution take on the encapsulation property of ONR? Or improve emulsification of the *regular* soap? Or any situation starting with ONR mix starting as the base solution and improving emulsification by adding regular car soap/apc/degreaser? If I am asking too broad of questions in regards to car soap/apc/degreaser, then how about just car soap?

 

 

[Setec Astronomy]

So you want to take a quart of water with one ounce of car wash, and one ounce of ONR...and use it for what?  That's roughly 4 times a normal car soap concentration (maybe 8 depending on the soap), and 8 times the normal ONR concentration.

[TheMeanGreen]

Wheel cleaning, specifically. I have recently upgraded my brake pads, from the original Lexus spec pads, to EBC Red Stuff. The increased stopping power comes at the price of brake dust, specifically what used to be four weeks of accumulated brake dust happens in one week, but no where near the level a German car produces in one week. I like experimenting with products, so I thought well, let’s see how inexpensively I can clean my wheels. The concoction above is surprisingly effective on light to moderately dirty wheels; it does require agitation. For further context, the original finish on my 173k wheels has started degrading, so EVERYTHING sticks to wheel and particularly the barrel, the concoction has been effective. On a wheel with a nicer finish, the results may be even better. 
 

I posed the question to OPT because I want to know if the encapsulation that I was observing is due to the nature of the water or due to the ONR.   
 

Something that I am 100% sure of is that ONR increases the dwell time of the cleaners I have added it to, meaning evaporation doesn’t happen as quickly. It has also helped any dried on dirt rinse more freely, think Coin-op car wash scenario. Washing all of the wheels\tires with this combo and a one gallon of ONR at 128:1, all before pretreating the paint with a *normal* soap and doing the first rinse of the entire car.

 

In my specific application, 1:1:30 nets me 32 gallons of wheel cleaner at the price of 1 Gal of Gold Class at ~$14, 1 Gal of ONR at $40, and 1 Gal of RO H20 at $0.25.   My concoction still needs further testing to make sure that it is truly effective for my desired results. If it does, the potential savings is quite nice. For perspective one would have to buy four gallons of P&S brake buster used at 1:10 to be capable of hitting 32 gallons of wheel cleaner, which would cost ~$92, so maybe a $40 savings. Unless P&S Brake Buster can be diluted to 1:13 and still be effective, then the price differential may drop down to ~$17, which at that point I’d buy the P&S.

 

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Okay, so you are using it as a presoak that will be rinsed with water.  Sounds like a good alternative to harsher solutions, if it works for you.

[TheMeanGreen]

Yes, precisely. But exclusively for wheels, and agitated before ever being rinsed, given the condition of the finish of my wheels. 
 

 

**Edit to my super long post:

P&S at 1:10 should net 11 gallons of solution while 1:13 should net 14 gallons of solution. The overall result is that the ONR solution is marginally more cost effective over the long run. But who am I kidding, I may end up buying the P&S. 

[Ron@Optimum]

I'm never quite sure how to react to posters suggesting different combinations of products.  First Optimum manufactures 45 chemical products and does not spend time in the lab conjuring up different combinations - each product has it's purpose and if Dr G has an idea for something new/better, he goes after it.  When trying to combine chemicals to realize different results - like combining something that strongly dissolves/de-greases, with something that emulsifies, with something that encapsulates, you not only deal with the interaction of the chemicals, but in what order the processes take place.  I think combining soap with ONR with an APC would dilute the effect of each to varying degrees.  I don't see any negative affect from the combination, just muted results.  So test away -

[TheMeanGreen]

Ron, thank you for your response, I appreciate it. I agree with everything that you are saying and completely understand it. 

 

Well, think of this: there are many places, on the internet, that the product description of ONR says that it can be mixed with regular car soap, in the context of a regular wash bucket with regular car soap, assuming tap water, that the ONR can act as a "Powerful water softener" dropping minerals to the bottom of the bucket, right? Does this statement not imply that there is some level of encapsulation occurring? In this specific scenario, what happens when our regular car soap/ONR/H20 solution is comprised of DI or RO water? RO water and DI water are technically not the same, as one is more pure than the other, but both have significantly decreased amounts of trace minerals and any other *free radicals* that are found within the average tap water. Continuing the question, without the presence of trace minerals and free radicals, is the ONR in the above solution now in the position to encapsulate trace minerals or free radicals introduced into the system?  

 

 

[darrvao777]

i think you are overthinking this 

i also have a japanese sports hatchback with abundant brake dust

for the wheels, i foam with power clean diluted 1:3

i rinse it off with onr diluted 1:16

i agitate using a brush/mf and onr in a bucket diluted 1:256

simple effective solution

[Ron@Optimum]

Exactly my point, instead of trying to create some hybrid solution with questionable effectiveness, use the products as they're meant to be used. 

[TheMeanGreen]

I'd love to stick to products as they were intentionally designed to be used, however when playing the preservation game, some of these rather *safe* products can actually be too aggressive. Yesterday I completed another wheel wash with the 1:1:30 dilution of the mix in question, pretty successful.