What’s the big deal about things being left behind?

[stephen.details]

I’ve watched too many YouTube videos. I deep dived into watching Yvan teach (and after thinking over how he pitches the same tactics for mckees as he did for OPT started thinking maybe n914 is only “better” because it paid his bills lol but whatever)

I know optimum no rinse (only have experience with new formula) leaves behind polymers and contains some amount of carnuba. Not necessarily carnuba wax but the carnuba itself. Says so in the SDS. So these things are left on the surface to help protect the paint and for gloss.
 

What I don’t understand is what’s the big deal about things being left on the paint if the most I can think of them doing is altering the hydrophobic properties of a coating? And even then people use ONR with spray sealants, and I’m sure spray coatings, all the time. Shoot, the rag company promotes using ONR with bead maker. So maybe someone can answer why in the world it’s a “bad” thing to wash with a product that leaves anything behind? And if so soap also leaves residue behind and it’s not a protecting residue per say.
 

(Which is another weird thing about N914, if it’s a surfactant not a polymer isn’t that going to leave film behind like *soap* LOL). 

and if you’re doing anything more than washing, you’re probably claying and I would assume the abrasives, even using ONR as lube, would remove any protection our favorite rinseless leaves behind anyway?

 

thank you to anyone who helps.  

[Setec Astronomy]

Well, the "leaving something behind" argument gets a little overheated and overstated.  I've been on detailing forums for....sheesh, it's 17 years now.  What I/we have learned collectively over the years is that a lot of detergents "leave something behind".  Dawn does it so that the water sheets on your dishes so they dry faster and don't leave spots (same idea with the sheeting agent that goes in your dishwasher).  A lot of car wash soaps (particularly the ones from the auto parts store) do it for the same reason.

Early on a lot of us thought our wax or sealant had terrible durability because we washed the car once or twice with a detergent that "left something behind" and killed our beading, when in reality the "left behind" stuff had "clogged" our sealant or wax.  So yes, that is the main reason a lot of people get their shorts in a bunch....after a lot of work to prep and put a coating on their car, they want to enjoy whatever beading behavior they got, without it being "modified" by what's left behind by a wash product.

In the context of something like ONRWW, you WANT what it leaves behind, which is the reason for using it over ONR.

[stephen.details]

1 hour ago, Setec Astronomy said:

Well, the "leaving something behind" argument gets a little overheated and overstated.  I've been on detailing forums for....sheesh, it's 17 years now.  What I/we have learned collectively over the years is that a lot of detergents "leave something behind".  Dawn does it so that the water sheets on your dishes so they dry faster and don't leave spots (same idea with the sheeting agent that goes in your dishwasher).  A lot of car wash soaps (particularly the ones from the auto parts store) do it for the same reason.

Early on a lot of us thought our wax or sealant had terrible durability because we washed the car once or twice with a detergent that "left something behind" and killed our beading, when in reality the "left behind" stuff had "clogged" our sealant or wax.  So yes, that is the main reason a lot of people get their shorts in a bunch....after a lot of work to prep and put a coating on their car, they want to enjoy whatever beading behavior they got, without it being "modified" by what's left behind by a wash product.

In the context of something like ONRWW, you WANT what it leaves behind, which is the reason for using it over ONR.

It’s just rattles my ever obsessed mind that the big bad coatings people Put on, which are supposed to be so strong, can’t handle a little polymer and carnauba  wax on top of them from onr wash and shine (bc yes the sds says it’s got wax in it I’m assuming Onrww just had more) that at most lasts a week/2weeks. 
like the argument for using surfactant based rinseless (or soap) is that it leaves *nothing* behind when I’m reality it leaves a residue behind by nature, and like you said a lot of soaps have gloss enhancers in them. 
 

And if there’s a wax or synthetic sealant, well I can only imagine the hydrophobics are nothing compared to a coating therefore ONR shouldn’t really even affect them to a noticeable degree in the real world. 
 

I understand for sure wanting to enjoy the coating you worked hard to prep and install. Some people seemed to be concerned about the polymers & such left by ONR when they wash BEFORE prepping (so at that point I’d assume claying, compounding, polishing would remove most if not all of that stuff—and I mean were spraying iron remover on that stuff is strong lol)while others are concerned about it AFTER and affecting coating properties. At the end of the day I’m trying to figure out if it’s just in people’s heads because every single soap that’s not formulated specifically for your specific coating (in lab testing no less) will alter the characteristics of your coating at least superficially and temporarily. Maybe I’m just trying to justify my use of ONR and have adopted too much brand loyalty. Like I get why generally ppl don’t want polymers/wax but darn aren’t people waxing on top of coatings for shine anyways 😂

sorry for the long rant of a response. Just a newbie trying to wrap his mind around all the detailing drama that is the internet. 

[Redgrandam]

ONRWW shows carnauba in the composition section. Regular ONR only shows it under the carcinogen warning part of the sds. 
 

It seems odd that there would be any in the wash and shine, I wonder if that could be an error? 
 

I think if I’m applying say a ceramic spray or something I wouldn’t want carnauba wax left behind.  But some polymers certainly don’t seem to be an issue. 
 

Someone did some testing I saw on YouTube that tested a panel washed with ONR to see if it affected the sealants. Their tested showed in some cases that it did slightly (but not an amount to worry about) but it also increase durability of one sealant. So I’d say it’s a wash. 
 

 

[Mr.Outback]

Am not sure carnauba is only available as a wax: might be a _component_ of the wax and thus offer other formulation uses.

FYI when I clean my PRO+ 'd Subaru Outback with ONR diluted with distilled water and sprayed on via IK sprayer, it will leave visible residue unless wiped off with microfiber towels.  The whole wash process takes 10 minutes to clean the entire vehicle (much faster than bucket/hose/towel process reserved for serious M-washes).  I don't know how long whatever polymer left behind wears off the PRO+, though.