Ron@Optimum Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 I don't think OPT will discontinue existing products that have multiple uses to concentrate on more specialized ones. We have to recognize where the market is going while serving our core customers. I was shocked to hear how much more waterless wash Amazon sells versus rinseless, but ignoring the masses is a fools errand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Ron@Optimum said: We have to recognize where the market is going while serving our core customers. I was shocked to hear how much more waterless wash Amazon sells versus rinseless, but ignoring the masses is a fools errand. That's always been a tough needle to thread. Normally I would say it would be better to get product feedback from forums like this, but that's not a mass-market perspective (not to mention forums are dead). Rinseless is a difficult concept for the public; they understand a conventional car wash, and understand spraying a cleaner on something and wiping it off, but rinseless is a murky in-between that people don't understand. It also takes more equipment and setup (finding a bucket and a "sponge"). Turtle Wax for some unknown reason came out with a rinseless wash a few years ago (for one season), and even Meguiar's discontinued theirs some years ago, although that was a Detailer line product, not retail. I guess as a (sort-of) objective observer, I'd say the uninformed and finicky nature of the retail market is going to lead to a lot of SKU's, something which Dr. G refused to do with, say, the creme polishes. He's got to bear in mind when Turtle Wax misses with a product, it winds up on the clearance end cap at AutoZone or Walmart, or at Big Lots (is Big Lots still around?), not in the Optimum warehouse. Of course if Amazon owns it (the inventory), I guess it's the same as my earlier example. When Dr. G sobers up from his weekend in Vegas (KIDDING, JOKE, don't ban me!) I'm still interested in whether the new wheel and tire cleaner has anything in it making it better than OPC for that purpose. LostVulpine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 Can't answer your last question...yet. You are exactly right about keeping it simple with ready to use products and no confusing instructions. ONR is successful in spite of all that and proof is all the competing products. OPT has an Amazon Specialist who is guiding product development. Coming from the food industry, I've warned Dr G about SKU growth and product proliferation - it's expensive and can cannibalize your sales. Ironically, TurtleWax bought their rinseless from Optimum (along with several other products including Wax and Opti-Seal). They wanted us to dilute ONR and Dr G refused so to make more money they changed the sizes and dilution ratio. But right again, they did not train people how to use or why it worked, so failed miserably (after also failing to reverse engineer Opti-Seal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 New products - not on web site yet, but can be ordered via phone or email (901-363-4955 and info@opticoat.com). There are 2 new cordless D/As (15mm and 22mm), a cordless Rotary and a corded Rotary. NO Optimum products are being discontinued. JoseG, dlc95 and P M D 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ron@Optimum said: New products - not on web site yet, but can be ordered via phone or email (901-363-4955 and info@opticoat.com). There are 2 new cordless D/As (15mm and 22mm), a cordless Rotary and a corded Rotary. NO Optimum products are being discontinued. Curios…. Will we see smaller versions of these new products? I would love to include the little kits opt has on their website for customers that want to maintain themselves. I don’t see why changing the current ones or offering new ones with the new products/labels wouldn’t help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlc95 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ron@Optimum said: Can't answer your last question...yet. You are exactly right about keeping it simple with ready to use products and no confusing instructions. ONR is successful in spite of all that and proof is all the competing products. OPT has an Amazon Specialist who is guiding product development. Coming from the food industry, I've warned Dr G about SKU growth and product proliferation - it's expensive and can cannibalize your sales. Ironically, TurtleWax bought their rinseless from Optimum (along with several other products including Wax and Opti-Seal). They wanted us to dilute ONR and Dr G refused so to make more money they changed the sizes and dilution ratio. But right again, they did not train people how to use or why it worked, so failed miserably (after also failing to reverse engineer Opti-Seal). It was that Turtle Wax rinseless that was my first. It will be ten years April of 2024. I had a couple bottles and after that I started using Optimum No Rinse, as I had read that it was originally made my Optimum. I'm very interested in the mew waterless and wheel/tire cleaner. And I'm VERY glad to hear nothing is being discontinued. I'm interested in the cordless tools too. Any plans for a 3" orbital? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Ron@Optimum said: Ironically, TurtleWax bought their rinseless from Optimum (along with several other products including Wax and Opti-Seal). They wanted us to dilute ONR and Dr G refused so to make more money they changed the sizes and dilution ratio. Ha, I remember that it had a different dilution rate, and I remember people on other forums being distraught at it being discontinued. There were probably some ONR-haters in there, too! I think the dilution ratio difference threw everyone off from making the ONR connection. Funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 Turtle Wax figured changing the bottle and dilution ratio would throw customers off...and they were mostly right. Their rinseless was more expensive but most never computed it. I found it funny when people said TW was better (or ONR was better) because they were the same. They didn't educate the masses on the rinseless technology and got pushback from ignorance. The product flopped and became a bargain basement deal (and yes, Big Lots still exist). Their chemist tried to reverse engineer Opti-Seal but never got it right - Dr G said that is much more difficult that TV makes it seem. I was consulting with Optimum then but Dr G asked me to sit in TW meetings to expand his "staff". habs33 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 I don't think there's any plans for sample sizes of the new products (samples seem great but packaging/labels cost more than the product and are not profitable). I thought I heard mention of a cordless mini, but it was not introduced at SEMA. The new products are related to existing Optimum formulas (naturally) - Wheel & Tire Cleaner is a specialized form of Power Clean, Interior Cleaner also has some Power Clean added, Interior Protectant is an enhanced version of Protectant Plus, etc. These products are aimed at the retail market (think Amazon) in ready to use form, simplified functions and directions. They do not replace existing Optimum products that have multiple applications and can be purchased concentrated. Those products, as always, target the enthusiast/professional market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 27 minutes ago, Ron@Optimum said: They didn't educate the masses on the rinseless technology and got pushback from ignorance. Well, not to go on and on on this topic, but I think it's more complicated and difficult than that. Certainly in today's social media/YouTube world people can become educated on rinseless washing, and it shouldn't be difficult to overcome that ignorance. I think it's a combination of "muscle memory"; people understand spray-and-wipe products (waterless washes) because everybody has used Windex or bathroom cleaner, and it's kind of a natural habit. In a different way, a conventional car wash evokes all kinds of other memories and rituals, perhaps memories of helping your dad or brother to wash his car, or "spring is here, time to wash the car!" So I think some of it is people not wanting to let go of familiar things or things that make them feel good, and some of it is, as we see in todays world, just believing what you want to believe. Even at the other detailing forums, there was stiff resistance to rinseless washing for a long time, even though QEW had become a winter staple in the rust belt, but it was never something that you would do if you could use a hose instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 47 minutes ago, Ron@Optimum said: I was consulting with Optimum then but Dr G asked me to sit in TW meetings to expand his "staff". Ha! Classic small biz strategy. PS I hope you're not violating an NDA disclosing this TW dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Holy cow, I was just looking on another forum, that was 10 years ago when TW was selling that wash, pretty funny some of the comments regarding ONR. What did Dr. G do, Ron, fill up a tank truck with ONR and send it off to TW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron@Optimum Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 No NDA and that TW business was so long ago...you are close, since Dr G would not "dumb down" ONR, TW bought the concentrate in bulk and could mix it any way they wished to maximize profit. TW made an effort, sending reps into auto parts stores (O'Reillys, Autozone, etc) to demo the product. I think they knew they were in trouble when clerks questioned the product and called it "snake oil". There's still pushback on ONR, Optimum recently offered an 8 oz bottle with money back guarantee and I got to respond when customers wanted their money back. Some just didn't understand how to use it, but others had unreasonable expectations. OPT did find some new users, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setec Astronomy Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 It really has taken a long time even at the other detailing forums for people to embrace rinseless, even though by nature most of the people who come to forums are fairly open to new ideas (except for the odd Kozak user). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 20 hours ago, Setec Astronomy said: It really has taken a long time even at the other detailing forums for people to embrace rinseless, even though by nature most of the people who come to forums are fairly open to new ideas (except for the odd Kozak user). It’s definitely starting to creep into the public market. I’ve had a couple clients ask if I do rinseless to my surprise and we’re excited when I said yes. Everyone asks what I’m washing with when they see me working outside Ron@Optimum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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