Dr. G giving 20 things ONR can do

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This has been kind of bothering me in the back of my mind since this thread got started...about why so many of these "no-rinse" applications, like waterless wash/quick detailer, glass cleaner, hardwood and tile floor cleaner, granite countertops, etc. are 6oz or more per gallon dilution rate.  When I call these "no-rinse" applications, I mean, none of them are ones that you go back over the surface with plain water after, to "rinse".

So if I can wash my filthy car with only 0.5oz/gallon ONR, why do I need 12 times that or more to clean my kitchen counter?  Or why don't I need/shouldn't I use 6oz/gallon to wash my car?  If any residue left from 6oz/gal is ok for my granite countertop in my kitchen (well, your kitchen, I have Formica), why isn't that residue ok on my car?

The other one that's puzzled me for a long time is why clay lube is only 2oz/gallon, that seems like one that needs a lot of lubricity, why isn't that one 8oz/gallon, which is the Quick Detailer dilution?  After all back in the day companies that didn't make dedicated clay lube told you to use their quick detailer, heck the Meguiar's clay kits used to come with a bottle of the red QD in the box.

Again, if 0.5oz/gallon is enough to clean road film from driving in the rain off my car, why do I need more concentrated solutions for other things?  That road film is full of oily crap from the road, not to mention dirt and grit.

I'm just trying to understand the incongruity (to me).  Mostly wondering if I should up the concentration in my wash bucket, which has the added bonus of using up my old versions of ONR/ONRWW faster.


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I told Dr G these were legitimate questions and I was curious as well.  His answers reminded me why he's the doctor...and I'm not:


When you are washing with No Rinse you are using 2 gallons of water with 1 oz. of No Rinse to clean your car. When you use it as a quick detailer you end up using 16 oz. of water with 1 oz. of No Rinse to wash your car also. The amount of water changes, however the amount of No Rinse remains the same. You use slightly less No Rinse for cleaning glass, countertops or other nonporous surfaces since you use less than 0.75 oz. of No Rinse in 16 oz. of water. Therefore for all these non porous surfaces you use 1 oz. or less of No Rinse in either 16 oz. of water or 2 gallons of water. If you use a higher concentration of No Rinse, it will cause streaking. You should also remember that when you are spraying No Rinse at 0.75 oz. in 16 oz. of water you only apply 1 sprays per 2 square feet of surface which is 0.0015 oz. of No Rinse (1 cc of 0.75 oz. in 500 cc of water) to the surface. And when you are washing with 1 oz. of No Rinse in 2 gallons of water you are applying roughly 0.005 oz. of No Rinse (2oz. x 20 cc / 7,800 cc) per 5 square foot which is roughly the same concentration per square foot.

The only exception is hardwood floors where you use 6 oz. in 2 gallons of water since it is a porous substrate which requires more No Rinse. For everything else you need much less of No Rinse which makes it very economical even in the case of hardwood floors. When using it as clay lube, you do not want too much lubricity since it will reduce the efficacy of the clay bar. That is why you only need 2 oz. of No Rinse per gallon of water. I hope this helps understand the science behind these dilution ratios. Thanks.

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Yeah, I guess that sort of makes sense, except I've never used 2 gallons of rinseless wash in my life.  I generally use a half gallon, unless the car is really dirty or really big, then I'll use a gallon (I generally still use a hose for wheels).  I use a rinse bucket at about 1/4 of the dilution rate.  By the logic you have stated, if I'm trying to use a specific amount of neat ONR, then I should be quadrupling my concentration so that I use 1 oz per wash.

I'm looking at this as a molecular reaction, in that a higher concentration increases the likelihood that the surfactant molecules will attach to the dirt molecules, since I'm not immersing my car in the bucket and swishing it around so that it can contact more molecules in the lower-concentration solution.   I mean I guess 1 oz of ONR has a specific number of molecules in it, so I understand the concept of wanting to use a certain number of molecules per unit area.

This also gets all muddied up (so to speak) when Yvan used to recommend using the same bucket of ONR over and over; as I recall he had some sort of double bucket he made to let the grit fall to the bottom.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, it's just in the past couple of years I've been mixing up a spray bottle of ONR at the normal dilution for things like dampening microfiber towels for dusting, microfiber mopping floors, general cleaning, and wiping the soles of my sneakers after walking on oily floors at work.  That (0.5oz/gallon) dilution seems to be fine, it just is at odds with the video recommendations, so it got me thinking about this.

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one of the interesting/frustrating parts of my job is dealing with all the variations, options, suggestions, alternatives, etc that users come up with for Optimum products.  That includes combinations of products that are unique, sometimes useful, to downright impractical.  There is also little rhyme or reason the the container sizes people want to mix in (including metric measurements).  Dr G has put out the "optimum" ratios that work for his products in the quantities he deems most workable.  If different sizes are best for you, then go for it, but please understand we don't sit around dreaming up alternative mixtures, or test esoteric combinations. 

I've seen the comment about Yvan's recommendations before (I never heard it from him), but he had a high volume shop and I believe he meant washing multiple cars from one mix, not keeping a bucket fresh for 2-3 days.  I've tested ONR in a bucket and after dipping dirty wash media, 2 days is the most I've gotten before it gets funky.  Possibly using DI water might give you more time?

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I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the dilution ratios. 

Yvan's recommendation was in one of his videos on the Optimum YouTube channel, but those are all gone now.  I never reuse my wash solution, my point was that whether the solution is anionic, cationic, or zwitterionic, there are only a limited number of attachment points to "encapsulate" the dirt, at which point there are no more available, and the solution is spent (I guess, I'm not a chemist, I only play one on forums).

I'm just thinking out loud here, I don't expect an answer, but I'm not sure that I agree that I use much more solution when doing a rinseless wash vs. a spray bottle application, and that I'm therefore putting the same volume of ONR concentrate down per unit of surface area.  Hence my comment about maybe I should use a higher concentration for my rinseless wash since I use less solution than "average".  I mean I'm not even sure it's physically possible for me to put 12 times as much liquid on my car than I would spraying 6oz/gal on a window to clean it, although to be fair if the (car) surface is very dirty I will do multiple passes (credit to Bence for this technique).

I mean just for an example, let's say I am going to QD my hood at 8oz/gallon; am I really going to use 16 times as much solution if I rinseless wash it using my microfiber sponge wash media?  I will probably use more solution, maybe 3 or 4 times as much, but not 16 times as much.  IMO.  I might have to do an experiment.


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