NEW PRODUCTS - TRCMA

[JoseG]

New products from TRCMA-

 

- ONR version 5! The slickest has been made slicker!

- return of Opti-Clay

- Ultra Ceramic Seal- new ceramic sealant with 6m durability with greater gloss/slickness than Opti-Seal

- Opti-Trim Protect available to all (prev. Pro product only)

- Opti-Coat line now available through The Rag Company!

[zombie1991]

Well before we had the sticker to let us know if we got the Improved version of ONR. Now….how do we tell?

[JoseG]

I believe it says a 5 on the new formula sticker

[zombie1991]

I like to order directly from the Opti store. I’m fairly certain they always only sell the latest stuff. Amazon is a crap shoot. 

[JoseG]

I believe Dr. G said they would be available in a few weeks during the live stream. 
 

 

[Redgrandam]

Interested in the new ultra sealant. Curious to see it’s water behaviour. 

[Setec Astronomy]

I have a lot of questions/comments (complaints?) about this rollout.  I'll go in order from the first post:

1.   ONR--does the new version retain the property of not staining the wash media?  I haven't even gotten to verify that V.4 actually does this because I'm still trying to use up my big bottle of ONRWW.
2.   Why is the new Opti-Clay blue?  Is it still the same as the old yellow Opti-Clay?
3.   Ultra Ceramic Seal--I don't understand how this product fits into the line.  Even if you look at Hyper Seal as a limited-availability product (more on that below), why do we need another sealant, after Opti-Seal had ceramic components added to it last year?  Dr. G stripped products he considered redundant out of the line a couple years ago (the creme polishes and Poli-Seal), and now here's a product that seems to be half OCW and half Opti-Seal.  I just don't understand why this product exists if OCW lasts for 5 months (per the store page) and Opti-Seal has ceramic (and I think is supposed to last 6 months (as touted for Ultra Ceramic Seal).
4.  For years I have agitated for a consumer version of Opti-Coat Trim, but now that it's here, I have lost faith in these type of products due to my experiences with other coating-type trim restorers, and the inability of Opti-Lens to actually keep headlights which have had the factory coating removed from re-yellowing.  At least with a headlight you can polish it again to get it back to clarity; trim is a different story.
5.  For a long time, concessions have been made to the Opti-Coat installer base, chief among them was the discontinuation of Opti-Coat 2.0 from the retail market so as not to "compete" with Opti-Coat Pro (too long a story for here).  As I remember, the Opti-Coat Maintenance line was a concession to the installer base to give them exclusive products to sell to coating-install customers.  The availability of these products at the Opti-Coat store was ostensibly to allow for pro coating customers to more easily purchase them if their installer was not conveniently located to them.  Of course this also allowed us enthusiasts to partake in this line, which seemed to undercut the exclusivity granted to the installers.  Now that exclusivity has been thrown out the window by allowing TRC to sell these products.  I don't really understand this reversal, for a line that is packaged and marketed differently than the rest of the Optimum products.  Talk about redundancy, if I'm not mistaken several of these products are simply fancily-packaged versions of other Opti products, in a different color (Fabric Clean, OPC, MDR, tire gel, Opti-Glass C&P, Protectant Plus, FerreX) while a few of them are different (Hyper Seal, M Wash, "gold" ONR).

Apologies if this was abrasive, I'm always glad to see new stuff from Optimum.  I guess I'm just playing marketing beta-tester.

[Redgrandam]

8 minutes ago, Setec Astronomy said:

I have a lot of questions/comments (complaints?) about this rollout.  I'll go in order from the first post:

1.   ONR--does the new version retain the property of not staining the wash media?  I haven't even gotten to verify that V.4 actually does this because I'm still trying to use up my big bottle of ONRWW.
2.   Why is the new Opti-Clay blue?  Is it still the same as the old yellow Opti-Clay?
3.   Ultra Ceramic Seal--I don't understand how this product fits into the line.  Even if you look at Hyper Seal as a limited-availability product (more on that below), why do we need another sealant, after Opti-Seal had ceramic components added to it last year?  Dr. G stripped products he considered redundant out of the line a couple years ago (the creme polishes and Poli-Seal), and now here's a product that seems to be half OCW and half Opti-Seal.  I just don't understand why this product exists if OCW lasts for 5 months (per the store page) and Opti-Seal has ceramic (and I think is supposed to last 6 months (as touted for Ultra Ceramic Seal).
4.  For years I have agitated for a consumer version of Opti-Coat Trim, but now that it's here, I have lost faith in these type of products due to my experiences with other coating-type trim restorers, and the inability of Opti-Lens to actually keep headlights which have had the factory coating removed from re-yellowing.  At least with a headlight you can polish it again to get it back to clarity; trim is a different story.
5.  For a long time, concessions have been made to the Opti-Coat installer base, chief among them was the discontinuation of Opti-Coat 2.0 from the retail market so as not to "compete" with Opti-Coat Pro (too long a story for here).  As I remember, the Opti-Coat Maintenance line was a concession to the installer base to give them exclusive products to sell to coating-install customers.  The availability of these products at the Opti-Coat store was ostensibly to allow for pro coating customers to more easily purchase them if their installer was not conveniently located to them.  Of course this also allowed us enthusiasts to partake in this line, which seemed to undercut the exclusivity granted to the installers.  Now that exclusivity has been thrown out the window by allowing TRC to sell these products.  I don't really understand this reversal, for a line that is packaged and marketed differently than the rest of the Optimum products.  Talk about redundancy, if I'm not mistaken several of these products are simply fancily-packaged versions of other Opti products, in a different color (Fabric Clean, OPC, MDR, tire gel, Opti-Glass C&P, Protectant Plus, FerreX) while a few of them are different (Hyper Seal, M Wash, "gold" ONR).

Apologies if this was abrasive, I'm always glad to see new stuff from Optimum.  I guess I'm just playing marketing beta-tester.

I'd suggest watching the end of the livestream posted above, but I'll answer based on my understanding a few of your questions and hope it will help. 

 

1) I don't think we will know that till people get it to test it.  Version 4 I've seen many people state it doesn't release from towels when compared to some other options on the market (probably surfactant based ones mostly).  My guess is the main change to V 5 that we will see would be the increase in slickness.  It's always been what people say ONR is missing (and after using Absolute I agree).  This is completely user experience though and not safety for the paint.  I doubt gloss will look any different to most people using it, but it would be interesting to test with a gloss meter or side by side.  I'll be getting some when it makes it to Canada.  I have some V4 left, and I'll definitely compare.  But I doubt it will be here for a few months 😕.

2) no idea on the colour, I'm guessing because it fits into their branding better, and/or they have a new supplier. 

3) I think the Ultra ceramic sealant is 100% due to consumer demand.  They are popular products in the market.  Hyper seal was the closest product they had, but for example there was no where around that I could get it, I'm sure the same for many others as well.  It is also extremely expensive, and probably overkill for most people.  In my case (as someone who would like to try it), for something that I would apply every few washes (or use every wash as a drying aid), I found opti-seal fell short in water behaviour, and user experience for DIYer.  It never beaded very nice for me, and applying WOWA style sealants just isn't as 'fun' for a hobbyist to apply.  It's not specific to opt-seal, but it just isn't satisfying to use IMO.  There is something about doing some light buffing that is enjoyable.  For that reason I enjoyed using the spray car wax, but again the water behaviour doesn't compete with the competition in the market.  Ease and enjoyability of use was good though.  I have often wanted a 'better' car wax, that will bead/sheet water better, and have some self cleaning properties that are much better in ceramic spray sealants and detailers. But to me, someone that loves optional-seal won't necessarily like ultra spray sealant.  (fwiw options seal always had some ceramic in it I believe).

4) Not sure on this trim coating as I have never looked into it previously or ever seen it used. 

5) From a consumer standpoint I think it's a good move for them. I think everything they released yesterday was a good move actually.  I feel like Optimum sort of lost the hype in the last few years, which could have hurt sales.  I think this will add a little excitement to the brand, and get people back into it.  I think you are a bit off on your understanding of the opti-coat line, as I was as well until this week.  All the formulas (with the exception of ferrex) are either unique or modified versions of their standard line.  Either with more/different surfactants, or added ceramics (in the case of rinseless wash) etc.  They also compete better with higher profit boutique brands that have smaller amounts of 'better' products (what is better is subjective of course).  Yvan clearly stated yesterday that every single product is different with the exception of Ferrex.  How different they all are I don't know.  But it's sort of a different target market than their regular consumer line I think. It's a little interesting that Gold ONR has never needed to be updated since it's release, but blue ONR has gone through a few updates.  Kind of implies that the consumer versions are deliberately held back (probably to make them more affordable) while still maintaining good/excellent performance.  I doubt those of use that are used to diluting gallons of power clean are going to buy a ready to used bottle of opti-coat power clean for example, but surely some will want it.  Also those that value user experience over everything else will likely appreciate the opti-coat line despite the added cost, and knowing they are getting their absolute best. 

 

Note that my cars aren't ceramic coated, so my opinions might differ from someone else who's cars are coated.  But for me this change will at least get me to buy ONR again, when I had planned not to get more due to the improved user experience of competing products launched within the last 1-2 years.  I guess competition still moves innovation and product reformulations as I don't think there would have been an ONR improvement this year without the other products pushing things a little and being successful at it.  

[Setec Astronomy]

1) The media-staining has always been an ONR problem, and I've never used another rinseless that stains (maybe QEW did this, in fact I think it did...QEW conveniently gets left out of the discussion when the history of rinseless washes is discussed, with ONR being described as the "original" rinseless.  It may have been the original rinseless targeted to the automotive/detailing market, but QEW was around for maybe a decade before ONR, but marketed to the RV market.  It doesn't look like they even sell QEW anymore.

3) Consumer demand...I think that might be the first time Dr. G listened to hobbyists rather than pro detailers for a product decision.  I agree that maybe the spray on/wipe off is more "satisfying" than a strict WOWA application, although most forum members seem to use Opti-Seal as a drying aid so they're getting their "buffing" fix anyway.

5) I apparently shut off the livestream about 30 seconds before Yvan talked about the tweaking of the Maintenance line.  I think you are making my point, that the Opti-Coat Maintenance line is targeted to a different market, a less involved, less informed market, that is, the customers of detailers, as opposed to actual detailers (professional or otherwise).  Hence the fancier packaging, premium pricing, etc.  So to me it's just incongruous to sell the two lines next to each other.  As far as Optimum losing the "hype", Dr. G has always been a non-hype guy.  What is different from the old days is there is no Optimum rep on other forums answering questions, not that forums are really a thing anymore (says Setec on a forum). 

 

[Mr.Outback]

The OPT presentation at TRC, beginning around 5:00:00.  Starts off with Dr. G's product announcements, followed by Q & A.

 

[Ron@Optimum]

I will, to the best of my ability without feedback from Dr G who was in Boise, respond to Setec's questions/complaints.  Concerning staining of wash media, I've seen it mentioned occasionally but it's never been a problem for me (media always came clean with washing) and not sure why it's a big deal?

Not sure about the color switch from yellow to blue and again, does it matter?  Color is added and shouldn't effect performance.  OPT does not manufacture clay, but sources it.

I asked Dr G where Ceramic Seal fit in the lineup and his response was filling a customer desire for more gloss/slickness (as, mentioned by Red) with durability being a sidebar issue.  Gloss and slickness (hard to determine by the layman) have never been target characteristics for Optimum, but the incredible increase in products from spray ceramics to graphenes marketing those benefits inspired Ceramic Seal, so OPT is responding to consumers.

Opti-Trim, originally 2 products but reformulated into 1 application, was a Pro product that I recommended to Dr G years ago to open up for retail.  It's an excellent product that doesn't require any special knowledge to apply (usually one of the conditions for Pro Only products).

Making Opti-Coat products available through Rag Company (they've always been available directly from Optimum) - to push back against Setec suggesting Dr G is overly sensitive to Pro Installers, it's more that he appreciates them and works to help them be successful...sometimes to the detriment of OPT sales (see Opti-Trim) .  I believe (and this my opinion only), he expected them to be more engaged in selling the OC line since it was an exclusive profit opportunity.  Some do a nice job, but in general they are much more interested in selling installs vs products.  The OC line gave them access to a premium product not available from other car care sources, in unique packaging and sizes.  Many of the products are uniquely formulated for ceramics and demonstrably better on that surface, others are line extensions to provide a full line for installers. 

Other observations - as someone who spent a lifetime in the Food Industry, the number of variations in products is part of the marketing strategy and exists everywhere.  Dr G understands the downside of line extension - expense (development, packaging, labels), sales cannibalization, complicated manufacturing, mixed messaging, and conflicting strategies.  I would argue OPT has less product proliferation than most anyone and I bet we could name several companies that are serial offenders.

Second, there is no handbook for this business, so many products are new or offshoots, and the marketing is crazy.  Look at the new companies just this last few years - I watched Pan the Organizer award his products of the year (that was an adventure and a whole another story) - the number of categories, sub categories, sub sub categories was mind numbing (and 90 minutes I'll never get back).  I've worked with Dr G in one capacity of another for 19 years and I've seen him take wrong paths, open dry holes, make erroneous assumptions...and hit home runs, but he's never been unethical, dishonest, or greedy.  OPT has had to retrench products, develop new strategies (Opti-Coat 2.0), reorganize personnel, deal with new competitors and surprisingly similar product lines/marketing buzzwords, and survive major illness by the owner, but now has a clear direction - Accelerating into the Future!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:13 PM, Ron@Optimum said:

I will, to the best of my ability without feedback from Dr G who was in Boise, respond to Setec's questions/complaints.  Concerning staining of wash media, I've seen it mentioned occasionally but it's never been a problem for me (media always came clean with washing) and not sure why it's a big deal?  It's a big deal for those of us who use a single wash media (as opposed to multiple-media methods).  Even going back to traditional wash, the appearance of the wash media tells you when it's time to turn it over or go to the rinse bucket.  If it turns gray/black, you know it's got dirt suspended, and that indicates how large an area you can do before flipping or rinsing.   It's also telling you if you have to keep washing, if there is still dirt coming off the surface.  If my media holds the gray/black staining from the first pass, how can I tell what is going on with my wash process?

Not sure about the color switch from yellow to blue and again, does it matter?  Color is added and shouldn't effect performance.  OPT does not manufacture clay, but sources it.  That's what I was getting at, is this a different clay/source?

I asked Dr G where Ceramic Seal fit in the lineup and his response was filling a customer desire for more gloss/slickness (as, mentioned by Red) with durability being a sidebar issue.  Gloss and slickness (hard to determine by the layman) have never been target characteristics for Optimum, but the incredible increase in products from spray ceramics to graphenes marketing those benefits inspired Ceramic Seal, so OPT is responding to consumers.  Well, ok then.

Opti-Trim, originally 2 products but reformulated into 1 application, was a Pro product that I recommended to Dr G years ago to open up for retail.  It's an excellent product that doesn't require any special knowledge to apply (usually one of the conditions for Pro Only products).  I would be interested to hear if there are long-term test results regarding the restorative use of this product.  My experience with other coating-type trim restorers is that they fade back to the original (unrestored) appearance, but that subsequent applications won't restore the trim again.  That's an over-simplification, but those issues have led me to conclude that the dye-type restorers are a better option.

Making Opti-Coat products available through Rag Company (they've always been available directly from Optimum) - to push back against Setec suggesting Dr G is overly sensitive to Pro Installers, it's more that he appreciates them and works to help them be successful...sometimes to the detriment of OPT sales (see Opti-Trim) .  I believe (and this my opinion only), he expected them to be more engaged in selling the OC line since it was an exclusive profit opportunity.  Some do a nice job, but in general they are much more interested in selling installs vs products.  The OC line gave them access to a premium product not available from other car care sources, in unique packaging and sizes.  Many of the products are uniquely formulated for ceramics and demonstrably better on that surface, others are line extensions to provide a full line for installers.   Hm.  Maybe that is partly the shift to buying seemingly everything online that was accelerated by the pandemic.  Perhaps also the retail aspect of selling products vs. service is a different skill-set, that they aren't so interested in.  I would also argue that most people who go to an installer for a coating don't really want to wash/clean their own car, if they are people who like to do that, they are more likely to apply a consumer coating themselves.  It's kind of like your mechanic selling oil, "why would I buy oil from you, I come here to get my oil changed?"

Other observations - as someone who spent a lifetime in the Food Industry, the number of variations in products is part of the marketing strategy and exists everywhere.  Dr G understands the downside of line extension - expense (development, packaging, labels), sales cannibalization, complicated manufacturing, mixed messaging, and conflicting strategies.  I would argue OPT has less product proliferation than most anyone and I bet we could name several companies that are serial offenders.  Um...I think more than several.

Second, there is no handbook for this business, so many products are new or offshoots, and the marketing is crazy.  Look at the new companies just this last few years - I watched Pan the Organizer award his products of the year (that was an adventure and a whole another story) - the number of categories, sub categories, sub sub categories was mind numbing (and 90 minutes I'll never get back).  I've worked with Dr G in one capacity of another for 19 years and I've seen him take wrong paths, open dry holes, make erroneous assumptions...and hit home runs, but he's never been unethical, dishonest, or greedy.  OPT has had to retrench products, develop new strategies (Opti-Coat 2.0), reorganize personnel, deal with new competitors and surprisingly similar product lines/marketing buzzwords, and survive major illness by the owner, but now has a clear direction - Accelerating into the Future!  As I mentioned somewhere, Dr. G is like the anti-hype guy.

 

My thoughts in red above.

[Ron@Optimum]

I've had a chance to follow up with Dr G on some of the questions above, in his own words:

The version 5 ONR has the best lubricity of all rinseless washes and that was the main advantage of Absolute. It also beads much better and dries much easier than Absolute. I think it also has better release properties.

Blue clay has more cut and finishes better

Opti-Trim - One application should last for years and it can always be reapplied after a cleaning and paint prep wiping

Ceramic Seal - It is like Bead Maker on steroids lasting 6 months or longer. The main advantage over Opti-Seal is the slickness, gloss, and water beading

Opti-Coat Line - Rag company asked us to let them sell the maintenance line on Amazon to create volume. If they do not make it happen we will take it back.

I asked about the growing number of spray ceramics - The permanent coatings are in syringes. Anything in spray bottles is a hybrid and will have much shorter durability.

[JoseG]

49 minutes ago, Ron@Optimum said:

I've had a chance to follow up with Dr G on some of the questions above, in his own words:

The version 5 ONR has the best lubricity of all rinseless washes and that was the main advantage of Absolute. It also beads much better and dries much easier than Absolute. I think it also has better release properties.

Blue clay has more cut and finishes better

Opti-Trim - One application should last for years and it can always be reapplied after a cleaning and paint prep wiping

Ceramic Seal - It is like Bead Maker on steroids lasting 6 months or longer. The main advantage over Opti-Seal is the slickness, gloss, and water beading

Opti-Coat Line - Rag company asked us to let them sell the maintenance line on Amazon to create volume. If they do not make it happen we will take it back.

I asked about the growing number of spray ceramics - The permanent coatings are in syringes. Anything in spray bottles is a hybrid and will have much shorter durability.

Love to hear that ONR is the undisputed king! Any updates on release dates for ONRv5, the clay, and Ceramic Seal? I know Dr. G mentioned during TRC sometime during the next few weeks. 

[Setec Astronomy]

As a follow-up to JoseG's question, will there be an ONRWW v.3 based on the ONR v.5 formula, and if so, when will that be available? Also how will the new formulas be shown at the store, since right now they both say "new formula" from the last revision.

And thank you, Ron, for the clarifications, that's great news that the Opti-Trim can be applied over itself.  And I have no doubt that TRC will move the Opti-Coat maintenance line.